What is the Moroccan Identity?

By using the common Moroccan metaphor of “shlada” (salad), Living in Morocco attempts to figure out how Moroccan identity has evolved.

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A Muslim-American woman living in Morocco 93 comments

Sunday, April 18th, 2010


Shlada. It’s an Arabic word I learned early on in my time in Morocco, but not first for what the word actually means- salad, but for its metaphoric use to describe the Moroccan identity.

My husband’s family frequently asks me what I think of the Moroccan people, society and culture. It’s a risky question because if I say what I really think and my husband translates word for word, I could easily offend them. But, I’m often too honest for my own good. So, instead of coming up with a safe and diplomatic answer, I tell the truth of my observances and experiences since my arrival to Morocco in 2008.

“It’s confusing”, I start. “I see the older women wearing hijab and djallaba walking next to their teenage daughters dressed in the tightest western clothes possible and a lot of make-up. The daughter, rightfully passed the age when she also should be donning the hijab herself, is encouraged by her mother to buy more clothes and make-up. While you hear the calling for prayer in the streets, a Muslim has forgotten every single lesson in humanity from the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and is gunning for you from behind the wheel of his car as you are trying to crossing the street. I guess I expected something different in a country of Muslims.”

When I feel myself going down a ranty path, I try to add in the difference in scenery and cities. “The landscape of the entire country is so different. There are tall, snow-capped mountains and oceans of sand in the desert…tropical paradises and beautiful beaches full of lush fertilization in the rainy seasons. All the cities have their own personalities and the way people live in Casablanca and Tangier is so completely opposite to the people in small villages and even the desert nomads. The whole country seems to be about opposition right down to the very earth it’s made of.”

I continue on, “The gap between rich and poor is so apparent here. There are the biggest villas in Soussi while there are shanties not more than two blocks from our own apartment. And there is all this modern technology, but so many people don’t even have a shower installed or running hot water in their homes…people have the latest cell phones and wireless internet on their laptops, but not hot water? I’m sorry, but this kind of doesn’t make sense to me. ”

And, then I go back to the Islam thing. “Why do people litter all over the streets, ruining the earth Allah has provided while they are saying ‘smillah before making any move?”

I go on, “the Moroccan people are known all over the world for their hospitality, but among each other that graciousness and generosity is missing.” I feel myself getting ready to relate my hammam tales of the times when I’m identified as an American and the times when I’ve blended into the crowd. A much different experience I assure you.

I can say more about the many differences I see in a society full of people mainly originating from one land, but I see they are getting my point and I finally finish with “I don’t know what to say about the Moroccan people, they aren’t at all “bad”, but maybe it’s a good example of how Westernization isn’t always such a good thing. The contradictions I see all seem to be related to modernization…” I trail off then. And finally, after all the translating is done, I hear them all mutter one word, “shlada.” The Moroccan identity is like a salad–mixed up, chopped up bits of different things thrown together in a bowl. They don’t say it with any animated excitement as if it’s a good thing. They aren’t offended by my views. At least, they don’t seem at all offended by my observations nor does my husband relate that anything I’ve said has hurt they’re feelings. Nothing I’ve said is meant to hurt anyone’s feelings. I’m just relating what I’ve witnessed and experienced here.

But, often the conversation ends there never going further into the idea of Moroccan identity, whether it’s modernization or something else that has blurred Moroccan identity to an outsiders view. But, as they move on to another conversation, I’m left wondering: what is the Moroccan identity? Was it ever something different or more definable than it is now? What would they like it to be? Yet, my family just seems to accept it and move on to the next topic of interest.

Do other Moroccans feel and think the same way about Moroccan society and culture? Would they agree with my observances and my family’s notion of shlada? If it’s something different then what they want, what exactly would they like it to be?

Swirly divider

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Posted on Sunday, April 18th, 2010

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93 comments on “What is the Moroccan Identity?”

  1. It is perhaps the societal pressure that the girls are not getting married that very much stresses the mothers. I think all muslim women know that they are required to be in hijabs, but for the purpose of display and getting the man to step forward, they thought they need to be “more forward” themselves. But for the most part some of them tend to want to enjoy life and youth first because perhaps they see that hijabs as a form of closure once they get married, because once they’re married, or passed certain age, there really find it no need to primp up, and show off their beauty. Another reason would be to appear like “moderate muslims”, just to be more compliant to norms and rules of society. These days people can look for all sorts of fatwas to convince them that it’s okay to do certain things even when it’s clearly forbidden in the Qur’an. The easiest way of practicing the religion is often the most desirable and less emotionally taxing. However, always look on the bright side, there are always a pious few who will still uphold the deen to its highest standards. Not seeing them, doesn’t mean they don’t exist.


  2. ben aissa khalid

    An American or generally a western identity is usually and mostly Media-Oriented,in other words,people thoughts ,behaviour ,interests and identity is oriented and manipulated by the Media which is the center of influence,consequently the result is a defined and limited identity.
    A Moroccan identity is mostly family-oriented identity.Every family orients their persons according to its believes and what they think right for them.The media plays only a small role in shaping the Moroccan Identity.
    consequently,each person is identified to his family and since there are so many many families ,diversities and contradictions are the result.
    Yes,i agree it is a salad but a Moroccan salad,not any salad.


  3. I totally agree with you…Shlada !


  4. First of all, congratulations for the BOB Awards 2010! You really deserve it!

    Great post with honest observations.

    Yes, It s still a salade when it comes to identity issues in our country. And I think it is even confusing for Moroccans like us.

    Thanks for sharing it.

    To Ben Aissa I would ask:
    which Western identity do you mean? Is it the Italian one, the Scottish, the Scandinavian or even the American one? Is it all the same?

    It is so confusing !

    Thanks all!


  5. Sibari Marouane

    That’s why you can’t stereotype moroccan people .
    As a moroccan sometimes it seems to me that moroccan doesn’t have a certain personnality
    but they still humains


  6. ben aissa khalid

    yes,it is all the same,and i mean that their identity is media oriented,whether it is italian or scandinavian ,etc…but of course each country has its own identity.


    • When i said that a Moroccan Identity is family-oriented,i meant that the government orientation is absent or confused because it has no strategy and no defined politic concernig the Moroccan Identity.Consequently,The Moroccan Identity is oriented by family believes ,behaviours and thoughts .

      THANKS FOR EVERYBODY


  7. Aziz Fettah

    It could be a shlada where you can see all the veggies chopped and tossed in a bowl. But it’s not unique to the moroccan society. If the Moroccan identity is indeed a shlada, the American identity is a Hrira! People live on the hills of California in a multi-million houses and millions live in the streets with the food stamps. Blacks, Hispanics, white (midwest) whites (new England) all different in different culture and language!even in the religious approach, priests in America are appointed to teach religious values, and how many are turned pedophiles!….When it comes to Morocco we try to paint the picture in black


  8. Dear Fettah,

    The article of “Living in Morocco” is about identity not about economical gap between classes.

    The American society is indeed unjust but the constitution of the country guarantees freedom of speech and equality. This is not the case in Morocco.

    I’ m not an Arab, but a Moroccan Amazigh. I may be accused of separatism or even imprisoned if I talk about it in public.

    This is not to paint the picture of our country black but to say the truth as I experienced it.

    Thanks all.


  9. Aziz Fettah

    Mr. Redact. if you look carefully to my article, you will find that it was an answer to the “shlada” that was published before my article. Indeed, what you refered to as an economical gap was refered to by others as contradiction in the identity. What you mentioned in your response, is freedom of speech. If you cannot express yourself in Morocco it does not mean you don’t have an identity! yes you do and the fact that you defined yourself as Amazigh means that you have recognized your identity. In Morocco, if you define your IDENTITY as Amazigh nobody feels offended but if you define Amazigh as NATIONALITY, then it’s a political separation and then it will be an issue for the government. Please don’t confuse identity and nationality.


  10. Dear Fattah,

    Exactly, except the fact that the Moroccan Constitution do not recognize the Amazigh identity. Morocco defines itself as an Arab and a Moslim country.

    I am Moroccan and proud of it. My trouble is not with common people but with the politics. I have no problem with my nationality but with the definition of the country’ s identity.

    Thanks.


  11. Aziz Fettah

    redact,
    I think it is the opposite. We don’t have a problem with our identity but we do have one with our nationality. That’s why we immigrated to different countries and we hold their passport.I am half Arab (father) and half amazigh (mother). The constitution define you as national and I am pretty sure that you live with your identity without problems (you got your amazigh music, your amazigh cuisine you talk to your family in amazigh fashion… ideas believes…the issue her is us as Moroccan we have to show our identity. I would like to see if I buy a bottle of Sidi Ali, to see everything written on the package in Arabic and Amazigh and not in French, I like to see all our festival posting our culture in Arabic and Amazigh not Rap music same for our TV our government our schools, newspaer computer programs….. All these are up to us to prove our identity and not up to the government because we already know that as bankrumpt as is our government, it could never strip us from our identity.


  12. @Aziz: “The constitution define you as national”

    The constitution doesn’t define him “as national” (I’m not even going to adress the gibberish platitude in this statement). The constitution defines the country as Arab and Muslim. That is part of what Redact is denouncing, and rightly so. Indeed, a country that defines itself as “Arab” and “Muslim” inevitably discriminates against minorities. The irony is that Arabs are a minority in the country, but decades of propaganda ensure that very few people so much as realize it. Despite the so-called new era, Amazighs are still treated like dirt by the Makhzen in their own country. They can’t even name their kids with non-Arab names! As for religious minorities, it’s even worse. They can’t even preach. Islam supreme reign is ensured by state-violence. Legally, a Moroccan is treated as a Muslim by default (unless you’re one of the few thousand Jews). And it’s not like you can convert either. Or drink a soda pop in Ramadan. Etc.

    Your attempt to compare the USA to Morocco is just pathetic. The USA is a republican liberal democracy. Morocco is a theocratic monarchy.

    You’re a perfect illustration of the status-quo-defending moral relativists in perpetual knee-jerk post-colonial reactionary mode. You reason (if that!) in a very primitive fashion, and lack a solid frame of reference (hint: the Quran does NOT a solid frame of reference – not by a long shot!).


  13. Please let s us talk in serenity and respect.

    Here what I m thinking:
    The Moroccan Identity is pluralistic but not recognized us such from the beginning. All the politics of successive governments since 1956 were focused on the arabization of the country and its people even if they are not Arabs. It was a mistake to change the country s language and force those who are not Arab to abandon their tongue.

    The consequences of these politics are that people can’t express themselves freely because they may be accused of separatism, regionalism and some times of being a agent of colonialism acting to destroy the national unity. That s why some of us get upset. Even foreign people who visit our country can’t understand us.

    I think we Moroccan people, Arab or Amazigh speaking, do have no part of responsibility of this at all. But we are all witnessing a cultural and linguistic catastrophe prepared and executed by a few in power.

    We can stop them destroying us by not following their politics.

    Thanks all.


  14. @Redact:

    > “Please let s us talk in serenity and respect.”

    A position that justifies oppression of minorities deserves no respect whatsoever.

    > “I think we Moroccan people, Arab or Amazigh speaking, do have no part of responsibility of this at all.”

    Bullshit! We have every part of responsibility in this. We are all guilty of cowardice. We have allowed ourselves to be silenced by thugs.

    Freedom and democracy are not handed out on a platter. They are fought for. The previous generation failed to do anything, and we are failing future generations by being complacent in the face of a theocratic monarchy that perpetuates Arab supremacism.


  15. aziz fettah

    Hakada
    I think you are mixing apples and bananas. We are not talking here about the government and its non sense policy, we all know that and agree. We are talking about identity. If you get it! I don’t care what the constitution defines me (or defines the country as majority) but I know my identity and I hope that you don’t confuse the large meaning of identity by “la carte national”. One of the reasons why we don’t progress is people like you that think this narrow. I do agree with redact thoug!


    • “I don’t care what the constitution defines me (or defines the country as majority)”

      You don’t care about the supreme law of the land? That’s a new low. I mean…I knew Morocco was depoliticized at gunpoint under H2, but I had no idea about the extent of the damage done.

      Rant some more about social inequality and pedophile priests in the US. The fact remains that the latter is a relatively free country that’s highly auto-critical. And Moroccans are a bunch of serfs.


  16. aziz fettah

    Hakada
    Once again we cannot go further with a freedom or demovracy if we as the people define clearly our identity, who we are. A country like Us who you are refering to has freedom and democracy yes but no identity. You can say I am Us citizen but not Us identity because there you will find Latino identity, black identity Asian….M6 tryed to open some doors of freedom to a society without identity and the consequences are disaster l’boulvard is an exemple


  17. aziz fettah

    Hakada
    The mentality of blaming the other has expired! and calling the Moroccans in general as serfs is a judgement from a coward hiding behind his computer and offending the others for free! Freedom is a right that we have to fight for but the lack of freedom has never made us change who we are. I bet you live in a free country today and nobody can control your expression but still you could not define yourself. This confirms what I said earlier knowing who we are and recognizing our identity is the first step the democraty and the supreme laws will come in the second step just because it is made by the people themeselves.


    • “Once again we cannot go further with a freedom or demovracy if we as the people define clearly our identity, who we are.”

      And who the hell are we? Being born inside a set of imaginary borders by chance does not make you special. It’s silly national collectivist thinking. There’s no shared set of features that makes one Moroccan. There’s a state attempt to create a uniform society and engineer an identity through state violence and deceit.

      Our identity is the sum total of the identity of each and every individual. And that includes atheists, queers, republicans, commies, intellectuals, as well as traditionalists, Islamists, monarchists and dumbasses. Embracing this variety is the only way forward. And that inevitably goes through democracy, civil liberties and such.

      I’m not in the business of censoring myself so as not to offend by stating the truth. If you get offended by a simple observation, it’s on you! All I know, is that Moroccans are a bunch of serfs who allow a family to reign supreme. I know because I am one of those serfs too scared to do shit about it.


  18. aziz fettah

    Hakada
    “Our identity is the sum total of the identity of each and every individual” Hell no! The Moroccan identity is the intersection between all of what you mentioned and not the sum. The identity is what we have in common and what is special in us. It’s true the regime does not give us the democracy to preserve our identity neither our supreme laws are made by us and for us, but we are Moroccans and we do have our identity. If we don’t agree that we have indeed one identity that will in fact make us one mass, there is no need to look for a change, for freedom or democracy. The Moroccan identity is seen in its people, history, culture, believes, customs, vues and not in its regime or how succesfull is its political system! Just to go back to your comment, Calling Moroccans as all serfs is a pure disrespect to those who died trying to change the situation.


    • When they rise up from the dead and convince me that calling Moroccans serfs is posthumously disrespectful to them and the democratic cause they died for, I might consider apologizing.

      Listening to the way the king addresses Moroccans and watching how he plunders the country, makes it hard to deny that some medieval shit is going on in this land.


      • aziz fettah

        The fact of the matter is you are only a loser who could not make it in this land You are talking about. You could not find yourself and had no achievement what so ever, and all you do is pitching the blame to the others, passing the backuet. I was listing to you for a few and you showed no initiative or other way to do things SOLUTIONS. There are too many ways to get ride of the regime, and its political slaves. There are too many people out there living in other free societies that can do a lot for the change. All this can be done if we agree about what we want. and who we are, back to the point of identity. People like you just missed the point. They rejected their Moroccan identity and still could not fit in other identities. The consequences are what reflects your thinking in your comments. (by the way it is not an insult)


  19. I think it is a unversal feeling, and everyone notice the gaps of his own country…Morocness does not mean to be A,B,C…and there are a lot of factors that have shaped (to the worst unfortunatelly) our Morocness


  20. khalid ben aissa

    I must recognize that language shape and define the way we think and view our world.I am pretty sure that this discussion would have been different if it was in Arabic “AL HAWIYA”.The content of the discussion would be totally different.and our “identity” would be different.Thus,i will repeat the word “SHLADA”.


  21. aziz fettah

    ben aissa,
    Language as you stated is a very important factor in the equation of identity, however our identity will not change just by changing the language of discussion in this forum, there are other factors involved. History, culture customs, vues behavior etc. The good news is we are using English because its the world’s language and not French as proof that we still suffer from the past occupation.


  22. aziz fettah

    Ben Aissa
    One more thing, It is a good sign to discribe our variety as shlada because shlada is a combination of healthy ingredients, visible, identified where there mixture makes a healthy plate. Other societies like the USA (that Hakada worship) are described by me as fettuccini sause where you can see it white even it contains black pepper and other components that are not visible dessolved!


  23. Interesting, please continue sharing your comments!

    Language indeed is important to define our identity. The trouble is that we do not seem to agree about what is our common language.

    The State uses Coranic Arabic as the language of communication and education.

    Coranic Arabic is not our mother tongue.

    Coranic arabic is written down somewhere in the medieval times and came to us from the Middel East with islam.

    No one speaks it at home and very few can read and write in it.

    Common people use Moroccan Darija and Tamazight in all kind of varieties.

    Some call Darija an Arabic language. This is highly questionable.

    Moroccan Darija is born in Morocco and is a mix of Coranic Arabic (vocabular), Tamazight dialects (syntaxis and grammar), French and Spanish (vocabular).

    The only close language to Moroccan Arabic is the Algerian one. Even the Tunesian Arabic differs a little.

    And nobody speaks Moroccan outside North Africa. The more you travel to the east, the less you understand.

    So what can we do to solve our linguistic anarchy – or shalada as some may call it?

    Should we force the State to adopte Darija as a national language for everybody?

    Should Morocco remain multilingual Darija / Tamazight?

    Or should we generalize Coranic Arabic for everybody and ignore the sproken languages?

    Thanks all


  24. aziz fettah

    Redact
    It’s a good approach you stated and in my opinion. We cannot enforce Darija as an official language unless we all work to make it useable in all the fields, it is a technical issue, as it should be in our academic education, computer softwares, culture, newspapers, translation of the scientific books, internet, on the package of our products… once we reach that level, Darija will enforce itself one way or the other. Arabic could be just an official language for the country as is English for the USA even though in the US they have Spanish language, sioux language….


  25. @Redact:

    We can analyze the crap out of the issue, but it won’t matter. Coranic Arabic is an official language because of religion. Period. Nothing trumps that. How would the “commander of the faithful” look if pagan languages were to be made official? And who else has the power to push for a constitutional reform to give Darija and Amazigh legal recognition?

    Let’s first strive for a democratic state (that includes separation of the divine from public matters) and we can then worry about linguistic issue.

    I don’t mean to disrepect your interest in promoting Darija and Amazigh, but there are far more pressing issues.


  26. khalid ben aissa

    No one could deny the fact that language is a major factor in shaping the way we think.If i ask you the same question in two different languages ,i am pretty sure that the answers will be totally different.If this question is to be “how you define identity”,one in English and the other in Arabic,the answers will be different eventhough they are ansewred by the same person.
    But,please do not be personal in discussing this issue,we all try to answer the same question.


  27. Hi Hakada,
    Could you please give some of the priorities we must first pay attention to?

    I myself find the language a priority. We can’t educate people without language. The system of education is a misery because of 50 years of blind arabization.

    To Khaled, yes identity can also be a little tiny individual thing. But to change a society to the better we must have much more in common.

    For exemple there is a need of a common interpretation of our past in order to built a common future.

    What do we share in common and who can we enforce it?

    Thanks


  28. @Redact: “Could you please give some of the priorities we must first pay attention to? ”

    I already did. Please read my previous comment properly.


  29. khalid ben aissa

    Well,its obvious that if we dont speak the same language we could not identify ourselves to each other;we will not understand each other and consequently there will be no communication between us .Lets not forget that the subject of this discussion is” What is the Moroccan Identity?”.Could we really give an appropriate answer to this question.In order to be specific in our answer,we must see if we do have anything in common,if we do have the same dreams.I am afraid that we do not because we do not feel together,we do not try to complement each other,we do not make plans together.
    Who raised this subject;an American women living in Morocco ,she could easly see how our surface structure is and its contradictory elements ,but the question we must raise ,as Moroccans,do we know our deep structure ?.Could we analyse this deep structure of ours and see if our identity is governed by any rules?…


  30. Living in Morocco

    Wow! I had no idea my essay created such a lively, interesting and enlightening discussion (have to learn to RSS my essay comments!) Thank you all- I’ve learned a lot from each of your comments in respect to my own observation of Moroccan identity.


  31. hi friends

    stupid question. i think we have already finished with identity in morocco. our identity is an amazigh identity because we live on the land of imazighen no matter what we speakand how we behave . and there is a big difference between nationality and identity. like banana and apple hhhh . there is no chlada in morocco concernin g identity .


  32. Stop destroying our identity

    Before beginning to discuss the identity, it is noteworthy to state some characteristics and determinants of this term. This is because these characteristics are the basic principles upon which the identity is founded. Every nation has its own characteristics which define and contribute to make it different to other nations. Accordingly, there are some determinants and aspects which are considered to be primary and fixed while the others are secondary and variable. However, most philosophers say that identity rely on a plenty of elements such as land, language, history, ethnic, people, and religion in some cases. But, what we can infer from the aforesaid determinants is that there is only one aspect which seems to be primary and invariable which is land. Because all the aforementioned determinants are in need of land while the latter can exist without the existence of those elements.

    So, land is the main determinant that defines the identity of a nation since it is fixed and invariable. We can take into consideration language, anyone of us is free to speak whatever he or she likes and how many people were speaking Tamazight and they become speaking Arabic and vice versa. Again the same thing for religion, we are free to convert any religion. You can see how many Jews become muslems and how many muslems become Jews and so on.

    Subsequently, people can change his language and religion but can not change his land and origin. For that reason we say that identity is something fixed not variable. And it is an obligation for anyone who lives on that land should be identified according to that land. If you live in Tamazgha or North Africa you are obliged to say that I am amazigh because you live on the land of imazighen , no matter what language you speak , or what religion you convert, or the way you dress or eat ; all these things have nothing to do with identity but have to do with culture.

    So, all people who live in tamazgha may be they have something in common and they differ in other things but at the end of the day they share the same land. There is only one land which is an amazigh land. There is no land for Arabs and other one for imazighen in north Africa. All tamazgha is for imazighen and that is it.

    Thus, the identity of any nation should be taken from its own land. So, when we talk about Morocco and we say that its identity is an amazigh not because of Amazigh Language or ethnic or something like that but because of Amazigh land. The land which our grandfathers lived in for a long time ago. And we have never heard that one day this land is vanished or destroyed by any nation. But we know that our grandfathers fought the enemies and kept speaking Tamazight up to now. Imazighen gave lessons in fighting and struggling and in every field. And they established and built great civilizations with rich history.

    More importantly, the proof that indicates the truth of Amazigh Identity is those names that imazighen gave to things, places and even for time. They named everything by amazigh names. You can join this website to see the truth http://ayttoufaout.ibda3.org/montada-f25/topic-t1144.htm again, If we take into account the word morocco; you can check the dictionary English Arabic, you will see that Morocco in Arabic means mourakouch not Maghreb. “Mourakouch” in amazigh language means the land of God. “Amour” means land and “akouch” means God in Tamazight. So, the invasion and the coming of Arabs to tamazgha destroy everything. Arabs tried to arabize everything. 50 years of blind arabization make Morocco an Arab nation as they assume. They usually tried to convince Imazighen to get rid of their mother tongue Tamazight and to speak Arabic by claiming that Arabic is language of prophet and paradise and forbade everyone who wants to name his child an amzigh name , Arabs claim that the amazigh names are forbidden in Islam.

    So, Arabs who came to tamazgha pretend that they are chorfa and they belong to prophet’s family and so on. All these things contribute to make imazighen convinced. The latter gave Arabs the power and everything they want until they become rulers and kings and so on . At that moment Arabs seized the opportunity to do whatever they like. The first thing they start doing is arabizing everything in tamazgha since they are able to do so.

    I wonder why Arabs wanted to change and arabize the whole nation. Surely this will never be achieved since the wisdom of Allah wanted this nation to be an amazigh land with Amazigh Identity. No one has the ability to change the destiny because everything is written and designed by Allah; if someone wants to change the Allah’s wisdom he will be unbeliever because he does not like this fact.

    Arabization is a bad habit that Arabs applied in north Africa to make all non-Arabs in general and imazighen in particular become Arabs and make them neglecting and humiliating their mother tongue especially by destroying their identity using different ways and arabization was one of the most and the best way that Arabs commit.

    Once I was reading some articles and I came across one debate. It was about Moroccan identity. When I read the whole article and the discussion under it I conclude that those people are still mixing bananas and apples. They still can not differentiate even between nationality and identity. As we know that nationality is related to a nation such as Morocco its nationality is Moroccan and America its nationality American and so on and so forth. Again I noticed one person said that our identity in Morocco is what we call it in darija chladha “Salad”. I was just laughing and asking those people who discuss this topic are they really Moroccan. They have no idea about what identity means, and they just mixed things up. They jump from one topic to another without saying anything important. They talk about nationality, beliefs, traditions, values, and so on. Then, they conclude that our identity is “chladha”. Finally, I deduce that they really destroy our identity according to the way they discuss it. They deceive us and they try to distinguish between us by naming us this is Riffian , that is Soussian, and other one is jeblian and the others are 3roubiya and so on.

    Written by Ali Gallouj
    Gallouj2959@hotmail.fr


    • @Gallouj,
      I would agree with you if you can prove untill which granfather a riffian is still riffian. And if identity is related to land as you say, I am arab born in Morocco and I know my untill 15 grandfather were also arab’s born in morocco and before that the one before came from east, I am I still not arab? and if 15 generations are born in this land I am not moroccan? or does that make be a riffian?(to be clear I am not against riffianity, nor I am for the arabisation of riffians however I am for that every muslim has to learn arabic good to understand beter his religion. ). Well I don’t think you are right by calling morocco an Imazighen country. Just as america no more an indian country or spain an islamic land anymore of Palestina a jew land of the time of mozes. The history changes due to historical facts and we have to deal with that. Thus morocco is now no imazighen country anymore but just “no mixed Shlada” with it’s imazighen, arabs, sahroui, twareg, jews,…etc. Unfortunatly or maybe fortunatly a lot of this moroccans cound’t assume for sure that they belong to to the imazighen just because the speak that language, one of the old arabs who setteld at the sea side could be his grandpa, as an arab who thinks to be arab while his grandpa is a pure imazighen or jew which due to generations forget his mother tongue Tmazight.
      :) some parts of the world is getting united, others fight to get more devided.


  33. Impressive work at first, but then again can be the mirror of my description and opinion on the Amaerican society and identity as well. How? Well Driving out of dowtown of any triple-x-ville in the U.S we can either drive north and sweep through the finest neighborhoods. Then it will only take a ramp and exit to east or south side of momst U.S towns and you’ll see real poverty and horrifying living conditions that you will never find in Morocco. I got to see some really bad ghettos and “haunted houses” straight out of an horror movie. Not to mention some trailer parks, with molded can foods and leftover food dating like years old, rat smell. I’ve heard of stories of people, drug addicts, leaving their babies as a collateral for a “dime” of crack. These are only examples of disparities of living conditions. Then Comes the religious disparities between the Midwest, the baptist belt and Scientology generation in the south west coast and the same-sex Marriage allowed here and there. These are only a few examples and not so deeply analyzed and brought just as response from a proud Moroccan who didnt get offended, but just wanted to share and say his opinion. Thank you.


  34. Dear Simo,

    If you believe there are no Imazighen anymore in Morocco I would think you are an ignorant or a fascist with some kind of genocidal agenda. In both cases you need some help.

    Yes, people all over the world are working together constructing their country. I would love to work with others to built Morocco too, but not without my identity. I am an Amazigh and did not chose my ancestors.

    My Allah open the (Arabs) eyes who just can t bare the existence of other people solely because they are different!

    Yours


    • @redact:
      Waaw! hard words, completly misunderstanding and prejudices. You and communication are two different things. I guess you are brainwashed and you surely need help. I am nore ignorant nore fascist and I have imazighen in my family and among my freinds. I don’t need to defend myself inother to prove that I believe in existende and diversity of identitys, also I like the imazighen culture and speak the language little bit thanks to my freinds who are just normal, have no clanfeelings, feel free with conservation and proud of own identity . You rather read my reaction wel instead of attacking me out of prejudices and complexes. To be clear: morocco like all nation who knew globalisations, trade and religies invasion is a salad, take it or leave it. In this salad there are a lot of mixes as people which ancestors integrated or married in another community thanks to religion, work, emmigrations or trading and of course there are still enough people who conserved their idenitity pure. If you look at all historical changes and calculate all those movements along more than 1000 years you would exactly know waht I mean. If you call an arab somebody who comes from casablanca no matter what his predecessors were and an imazighen from Nador aswel imazighen no matter what his predecessors were then is a moroccan second generation child in France no moroccan any more but french, the imazighen born in sansebastian is a bask and yourself don’t know waht the identity of your grandchild will be because you don’t know where he will be born and which language he will speak. I advise you to liberate yourself from all those complexes en prejudices to read free and a lot without losing your identity and proud just like a real Imazigh not the defenders of imazighen nowadays but a proud one like Tarik Ibn ziyad generation.


      • Complete and utter gibberish!

        It’s a shame that Morocco defines itself as an Arab and Muslim country. Those are the people with “clanfeelings”[sic] and universalist ambitions.


  35. Shame on me, i ve reacted twice before reading while the topic, distracted bij some totally missing goal reactions. The topic is not about Amizigh or arab but about a derailed society!

    I totally agree with the american sister and what she wrote. A lot of moroccans became like ravens who lost their culture and identity while trying to imitate the west. Who doesn’t speak french is less, who doesn’t dress and talk west is less. Who doesn’t drink a bier and have a boy/girl-freind is underdevloped. Who talks about islam or culture is extrimist, rare, dangerious and out of date. Who wants to work hard and be honest is not smart, who doens’t show his strength is nothing. At the other side if a policeman comes the strong become weak the boss become a dog….etc. We are very far from our islam, culture and thus identity. Our grandpa’s were proud and gave everything just to be free. Our generation gaves all just to be jailed and colonised. A silly slave consumer society who does ervything just to survive and showup. And, I think this wil takes decade to go through ……..unfortunatly


  36. wel wel wel ! look who is talking! I am not going to chat with you. it may be a prejudice but I guess I have got a view about which steriotype you are and I don’t care nore I am interested in who you think, your type means nothing to me. It seems like as if my post was personaly adressed to you, wel not! my post was a reaction on the toppic. My first short reation on your reaction was about the riffians where half familly of mijn are from, and where they stam directly from A. Alkhatabi (the freedom fighteer of the Riffians). By the way most of them are very high educated live in europe, doesn’t even speak arabic and the proud of their riffianity and they absolutly don’t share your idea’s.

    To keep it short:
    languages: I do speak 7 international languages … and in the country (non french nor english speaking) I live in europe and where I work bij an international company as senior engineer…my collegues and I condam in our cultural discussions intelectual colonisation and that’s all about in my country natal Morocco. we have to learn languages but we shoud stay proud of our mothertongue language!

    …I don’t know about which invisibale men you are talking about ….if you mean God, then is God no men nore is he somewhere in the sky, he is the creator who made you from nothing, from a cel amoung millions of cels in a drop op sperma to be what are, one growing up you think you can beat the world while a smal insect can make you sick that you will be looking for that creator to help when the doctors lot of the times fail to do so.

    ….if we ‘d take it personaly and you imagine me as a conservative man with a beard , jelaba…etc I assure I am not! I have no beard and have no jelaba or belgha home and unfortunatly have no moroccan freinds in where I live and no moroccan collegue within the honderds of staff my company have. I am just a free academic man who did his secondry school in casablanca in the early 80’s and finished his technical univerist in europe as engineer and choos to stay away. That ‘s why I had the chance to think free and observe morocco (my sweet mother country) from outside. I discuss this matter with my collegues who visited morocco mostly Marakech or Agadir, one of them even Tangier and all of the time I don’t know how to defend it agins’t all the negative experiences they had during their visit, just like what the toppic is talking about. Not about the islam or minoritys, but about “alhamajiya, serka, lkdoub….etc” and especially lack of own identity………..

    P.S.: you don’t have to expect another reaction from me cause I have better things to do…


  37. Arabization has had its best time in Morocco. Inshaallah Morocco will be Berber again in the future, is it is intented to be. Maybe not in our time, but in the future. Don’t underestimate the berberrevival caused by globalization. Remember: this discussion (form and content) could never have been taken place 20 years ago.


    • Who is goeing to do that? tough Berber Men are barried under the ground. Instead I would say the islamization of Morocco is coming back, and islam comes together with arabic language. I notice in my neighbourhoud that eventhough the Ataturk revolution in Turkey most of turks are lerning Arabic tot understand Islam better, right because of globalisation. The berber identity must get above strongly and that ‘s a good thing also in islam, but it doesn’t mean the Amazighation of the land. Do you really think that freedom of word is due to berberevival? I don’t think so. There is a small minority who thinks in that way. Most of berbers not. The fact that we have more freedom of word is due to globalisation (Satelite, Internet, ..etc), international facts and of course the young king of morocco who wants changes.
      P.S.: Let us don’t get blind with some berber courses of an unknown alphabet (which none of the berbers kan read) on TV. A Riffian freind of mine one said” some berbers are dumb, instead of asking for infrastructure, universitys, strong economy in their region, they are glad with a berbers course in Rabat……., meanwhile high educated ones of them go work in Casablanca and forget their roots”. (This is actually very moroccan, abroad is men worring about science, environement en economics and in we beat the world with somes singers…and folklor revival (the analytical study of “darbouga”…..


  38. If islam equals arabization, we have a problem; since we are muslims but certainly not sish to be Arab.


  39. Bad understood, Islam is absolutly not equal arabization. Arabic is leading in Islam, speaking arabic doesn’t make you an Arab. You can be Turk, Amazigh or indonesian but still be good in Arabic to understand your religion wel. Quran kan be translated, but the translation is no Koran.
    By the way why all this hate for arabic nation. If we love an artist like Bob Marley we all want to have Rasta, Rap wel all dress like the artist bovenall we all want to feel American or Jamaican. We all want to feel french just because french is sexy. And when the prophet is still Arab we don’t want to be associated with Arabs. As a muslim we can be proud of our origin and Identity (Arab, Imazighen, Turk, european revert russian..etc ) and at the same time proud of the arabity of The prophet (sws). There is nothing bad with being proud of own identity, bad and dangerious is secte feeling and extremism.


  40. An Amazigh in an Arabized Morocco is always in a disadvantage, because he doesn’t speak the language or doesn’t speak it well. Yes, it can be learned but he begins with a disadvantage. Recognition of Tamazight is imperative for freedom for Imazighen in their own country. Furthermore, I knowfrom Riffi family how made it to universities in Oujda and other Arabized places that the mere mention of a Riffi-background is not beneficial to ones carreer; this is flat out racism.


  41. to came to an and ,living in a diffrent socaity at all the levals is the secret behind the succed of and the devolepment of the mankind l maen bing deffrent is importent because it help as ingage with others in debats and formal dialougs that help in creat an universal values,attituds,opinions.whish maens that the irony of this age is to try to understant others opionins by not irritat them and disagree whith their opionins ,and go on whith this multculturlism under the name of tolerence and respect .


  42. hi again

    it seems that there is a hard talk and i was absent and busy with other things.
    Mr Simo i seek you just to understand what the identity means ? that ‘s it and do not mix things. because identity in Morocco is not chosen , i mean you do not have right to choose your own identity but you are obliged to say that my identity is an amazigh . and language has nothing to do with identity as i have already mentioned in the aforesaid article. there is only one identity in morocco. as there is only one identity and arab aljazeera Egypt, palestine, saaudia, and so on all these countries have only one identity which is an arab identity. i hope that you get the point. and asking for your identity and your rights does not mean that we do not like unity or we wanna destroy morocco or distinguish between people this is 3roubi or rifi or chel7i or …. you can only join the aforementioned article that i stated you will at least understand what we mean by identity.


  43. To all the people here who make a stand for Amazigh. I am proud of you. It is because of people like you that Morocco will remember it is berber again. To Simov: the ‘tough’ berbermen who will are here on this site!


  44. Too bad you deleted my message (and don’t understand why to be honest). Guess I’m done with this website. Have a nice day all.


    • If messages are deleted on this site, I am gone too. And it must be denounced it to the public as well.

      Asiya, could you please send me a copy of the message deleted? My e-mail is: redact@souss.nl


    • It’s very annoying that the mods decided to moderate all comments. Especially since they didn’t motivate the decision.

      I don’t mean to sound paranoid but it happened right after I used the common darija word for penis in a comment (not as a curse word, mind you, but to refer to the sexual organ). Well…I did sound paranoid…


  45. I really take offence when every Dick Tom and Harry assumes that every Moroccan is necessarily a Muslim. Firstly, there is a growing Humanist movement in Morocco that is making itself slowly but surely more assertive. Secondly our identities are complementary not exclusive. One can be many things at the same time and also relates more to one identity more than another. Being Moroccan is accidental and I do not see why I should be proud or not proud for being something that was totally out of my hand. My identity is based on universal human values not on orthodoxy and outdated dogma.


  46. I really take offence when every Dick Tom and Harry assumes that every Moroccan is necessarily a Muslim. Firstly, there is a growing Humanist movement in Morocco that is making itself slowly but surely more assertive. Secondly our identities are complementary not exclusive. One can be many things at the same time and also relates more to one identity than another. Being Moroccan is accidental and I do not see why I should proud or not for being something that was totally out of my hand. My identity is based on universal human values not on orthodoxy and outdated dogma.


  47. Dag Redact. Jij komt ook uit NL zo te zien? :-) Ze hebben de betreffende berichten inmiddels weer geplaatst. Gaat niet helemaal lekker daar bij de mods… Anyway, aangenaam kennis te maken.


  48. I guess this all about complexes and victim role. The topic is talking about the moroccan identity nowdays in form of behaviour, civilisation, standaards, …etc and not about riffians, soussi or arabs. And what does our berber brothers and sisters does? attack as a form of selfdefence, man! it’s not about berberiy or arabism of morocco! get some selfconfidence, it s good for your health.


    • Manus McManus

      @ Simo
      You need to accept that Morocco is not a homogenous nation. Morocco is a country of nations and only devolvement of power could create a climate of inclusiveness and self-determination. Morocco has a centralised autocratic political system where many components of its society feel marginalised. Denying this fact is not going to make these issues disappear but make them worst. Over half a century after independence, Morocco is the most illiterate country in the Arab world and Africa, making it the 162 in the literacy list out of 180 countries by the United Nations Development Programme. Arabisation was designed to create a nation of subjugated citizens deprived of any self-confidence. To put it bluntly the regime designed spineless docile subjects to rule with a free hand. The proof is in the pudding, if this education system was any good , the regime’s children would have use it instead of using foreign, mainly French, private schools and ship them to the best Universities abroad.


  49. Arabization is a curse. And yes Simo, you are right: berbers are its victims. But not only berbers. Egyptians aren’t arabs either, but they have invented arabization! It’s a struggle to get the truth out in the open again, the truth being that arabs belong to the middle east and that speaking arabic doesn’t make you arab (which refers to a race!).


  50. @Asiyaa: because of the arabization of morocco through the ceinturies I wouldn’t know if I am a real arab or not , maybe one of my grandfathers was just arabized. But still, I am very proud to belong to the arab race not because of it’s bad side and the politics we see nowadays but just to hve the honor belonging to the race of the prophet (saw) which was Arab.


  51. Simo, good for you. I am muslim too, I have all the respect for Arabs, but I am not one of them. Beacause God didn´t create me like that.

    The final for me here.

    The best to you all (Arab, berber or whatever:)


  52. Tamazight official in Morocco!! How about that guys??!


  53. Hi, I am new to Talk Morocco. I wish I had found this site earlier.

    I have been in Morocco now for 9 years. Though originally Dutch I have travelled the world for my work for years and lived in many countries but Morocco for me is the best place and now I know I will remain here to my last days.

    What is a Moroccan, that is a tough one, I think it comes down not to passport or blood but to someone who loves, has pride and is willing to protect this land. That they identify with the country, its land, history and culture.

    I say that for two reasons. The first it that Morocco by ethnicity is Arab, the various Berber communities, Andalous, Saharaoui, French, Spanish and a few others that have been born here.

    The second reason, based on the above, I can add that there are Moroccans abroud, a huge expatriat commuity whom either love and support or have nothing to do with the hard work that people put in making this country grow and prosper. What about us that are devoted to this country? There are those Europeans, for example, like myself who have devoted ourselves, invested and done everything to protect both the economy and image of this country.

    I might be tall, blue-eyed and obviously Euorpean ethnically, but I speak Arabic, some Amazigh (which most Arabs do not), I have been to every corner of this country, every souk almost, I must have my “a tay and bissara” every morning, why can I not say that I am also carrying a Moroccan identity as well? I certainly, when visiting Rotterdam, feel more Moroccan than Dutch and almost immediately end up at a Moroccan café by the end of each day….

    Ma’asalama
    DHH
    Marrakech


  54. Although it was interesting to hear an American woman perspective about Morocco, I would have liked to know where were you from in the US? also where do you live in Morocco? have you traveled a lot in your life? and what was the real reason why you decided to move there? all of these thing are very important to understand how you see the culture, otherwise, all that you talked about sounds like a big case of culture shock and lack of information to me. I am Moroccan with a berber dad and an arabic mom(that really never made any difference to us). Morocco never lost an identity or got westernized, it’s like that because of the diversity of the cultures that coexisted for years on the land, trying to make sense of it by putting it in a mold would be like trying to learn spanish using the english language rules, it will never work for you.

    Good luck to you,


  55. Totally true, Shlada is the best word to describe the Moroccan identity, well, Morocco is known in the whole world with the multiplication of cultures, languages, religions etc…, for example not all Moroccans are muslims, there’s is an important jewish community in Morocco (and many people are coming back from Israel to Morocco), which means that Moroccan Jewish community is increasing.
    There’s also the multiplication of languages in Morocco, because we have two official languages, and four main ones (Tamazight, Arabic, French and Spanish).
    So, I think we have to respect all the different cultures, religions, languages of Moroccans, because maybe we are different, but we have the same objective, to make this country better and better.


  56. first of all i welcome you in our country . concerning your topic all what u said ios completly true especially the first point :old woman with hijab and djellaba accompagning an uncloth girl or wearing western clothes which are in fact contradiction in the our culture


  57. Mysterious as it is, the Moroccan identity leaves any foreign observer with a shocking image on mind. The nature of the history of the country and the different ethnic and religious groups have pushed the limits of nationalisation further to embrace all under the tight principles of the country, which are Arabic language and Islam. Part of grasping the history of Morocco is correcting the fakeness that surrounds it eversince the Arabs conquered the country, and tried to force their identity by means of violence and religion. Still, that process is underway, though in different methods made fit to the needs of modernity on the surface, but lagging behind in its depths…


  58. Salad is indeed a hard word that can offend some people because it’s always negatively used but still I think it’s the word that describe the situation the best. I might take a position of defense while talking but I just want to make some points clear since even for a Moroccan like me it’s a bit confusing.
    I think every experience is different from the other and yours must be even unique since you are muslim so you see things differently than just a simple American. And since I can’t talk in the name of all Moroccans as different from each other are I’ll talk about my personal experience and What I think is the reason of such a diversity in every aspect of life.
    My dad is a berber my mother is from Marrakech, I was born In Rabat and I’ve lived most of the time In Agadir. I can’t even speak berber but when I’m asked I say I’m berber because it’s who I am. But who am I really. Is it what define our identity being berber or Arabic or whatever. I had the chance to go to boarding school and meeting with people from different cities and backgrounds, with different education and values… But I learned one thing is to never judge or stereotype, which we do a lot, because we only know what we heard about a region we never visited or from an experience with a person from somewhere… What I learned is to never generalize or categorize which isn’t always easy. Better than that let’s try understand people:
    A child born in Moroccan family (let’s say a berber one) will learn berber at home and then darija at the neighborhood, when he go to school he has to learn another Arabic it’s classical one not darija and the teacher is explain the Arabic in “darija” and here it comes French ,not always having a good teacher you might arrive to high school with big problems in that language. All the subjects are in taught in Arabic and suddenly in university all subjects are taught in French, BIG transition a lot of students can’t keep up .
    And of course you meet the “french” Moroccan(don’t mean to offend anyone) I mean those who speak only French with you (I don’t know why)and you are kind of mesmerized not because they are right or extraordinary but because you French is just so bad. Without forgetting English a very important language to communicate abroad but also seen as the language of “civilization and development “, this person should master all these languages, but of course when you learn a “language” you learn a bunch of ideas and ways of thinking with it. You end up with not knowing what language is really yours.
    This is for language, for religion it’s another issue. Morocco is Muslim country right? Doesn’t that mean that we shouldn’t have that and that… yes of course but the reality is other. Living in a muslim country doesn’t make a good one.
    Personally, I think the way religion is taught to us is just wrong, from our childhood we receive orders do and don’t without ever knowing the reason, it’s here when we mix religion with traditions and end up having a lot of misconceptions. Let’s talk about the example you gave about the woman in hijab and djelaba and her daughter: Sometimes specially older women don’t wear these clothes because they know they should wear hijab but only because it’s a tradition, so for her why should her young beautiful young daughter wear such clothes while she can expose herself and “have any man she wants”. Here it come ignorance and lack of faith and trust in God, this is also a big problem: that make the woman think that her daughter can’t find a man if she wears a hijab, that make her even go to witches or do creepy things, or when the man think that he won’t get the job or the paper he needs, if he doesn’t give a bribe or when they throw trash everywhere like you said… This is sad but true I hope things were different. I think ignorance and not understanding our religion as we should has developed such bad habits and thoughts.
    I think the big gap is in education because it’s the key to change the minds: our schools still teach you the knowledge (that if they do it as it should ) but don’t give you “the education” and our medias aren’t helping at all, and most of us are taught from foreign medias…
    Historically and politically we all know how did it affect our lives, I don’t know the details but I can understand the reasons about such a confusing and complicated Moroccan identity.
    To finish with, Have you already heard the famous quote (that I hate so much)” Morocco is beautiful what’s bad about it is its people” you’ll hear it sometimes by Moroccan themselves. I would only answer what is a country without its people? Anyway the issue of identity is so complicated that can’t be explained only by what you see or hear it’s deeper than that. I think we can’t put the blame of this “mixed salad” on the politics, history, or education, Medias, traditions, economical conditions … but all of them in the same time including the individual “the Moroccan”. It doesn’t mean that they’re all bad but just that some ingredients were just additional and others just missing … I think that the Moroccan individual now have a lack of confidence in himself and in his country. I would love to say I’m proud to be Moroccan because I love my country but It will be better if we try to make Morocco proud of its people. Let’s just take the decision that we’ll try at least to change ourselves and few people around us.


    • I like what you have written.


    • I completly agree with you in regards to the education part, being educated is the key to every successful society unfortunately, we seem to put that in the back burner and push for the religious ideologies, completly missing the cultural dilemmas Morocco has been facing for a while. I hate to be the one to say this but being religious doesn’t necessarily make you a great addition to the world, or makes you automaticlly a good person, unless your both of those things to start with, today there are many people that have ruined the image of islam simply by their ignorance and there interpretation of it. In a bright note, we has to realize that Morocco is a newly independent country, it will need the time to push towards a bright future, and I have all the faith in its people, because that is just who we are as people, the caring kind of people(arabs and amazigh).


  59. As I am travelling to Morocco soon, I’ve decided to browse the net and here I am on this site!
    Wow!! It all started with shlada but attracted some core activism!!! I must say I had to stop reading some of the comments, it’s just……
    I totally agree with the original poster, that’s how I see it as well with only one addition, have you noticed how Moroccan families always end up hanging in the smallest room of the house no matter how huge the rest of the place is?

    I am Moroccan, I don’t wear the hijjab. My mother does and has always worn it even when she was not a practicing Muslim. I have 2 sisters; 1 wears it and 1 doesn’t. You can see all shapes, colours and clothes when there is a family gathering. My family is a mixture of Berber speakers and darija speakers, I refer to what they speak not who they are! I don’t know who is 100% of anything in Morocco!? With so many mix marriages through the centuries, different invaders (God knows how many milkmen….;-) and movement between areas. As far I am concerned I am Moroccan, with a couple of other passports, I am neither Arab nor Berber, actually I am both with a bit of this and a bit of that on a top. I like it the way it is.
    However, if we are talking about languages then I think all Moroccan should learn Arabic, Berber, English, French,….Mandarin,….Spanish,……as many languages as possible. To block any language is ignorance whether it is Arabic or Berber.
    I really love the Moroccan shlada. My mother will never stop wearing a jellaba and I would hate it if I am forced to wear either jellaba or jeans as I like both. I like my Berber speaking family the way they are and I like my darija speaking family the way they are as well. I am not going to lie, there are many things I would like them to change but not language and cloths.

    Have you thought about the coming generation?
    I have met Moroccans all around the world, married to all nationalities and having beautiful children who are only half of the Moroccan shlada and they have another half of a totally different shlada!! My children are part of this beautiful coming generation!


  60. Good to see the discussion is still on.

    Of course everyone should be free to think what he or she wants. But as a group you need a collective identity. Its hard to live in this world if you dont know who you are. There is no place for a view from nowhere.

    Political correct answers wont help neither. We need to redress terrible mistakes of the past 50 years. Monolingualism is not the solution. People should be free to learn the language they want.

    50 years of forced arabization ended up opening the doors to falsification of the history of the country and to religious and political extremism. The country is still poor, its people marginalized because their languages have been marginalized.
    I am talking about all Moroccan spoken languages, not the written ones.

    As of ethnicity, it has never been a problem and will never be as long as people are respected in their specificities. A good justice system and good education should be enough to eradicate most sources of trouble.

    That s I think the way to rebuild our nation and make the country a place to call home, what ever you think!

    Thanks!


  61. Dear fellow Moroccans,
    I want to address the connection between arab nationalism and islamism and its reaction: the secularist component of the amazigh movement. The conservative muslim Amazighs (like myself) face a paticular challenge in that don’t fit either ideology. Doe you think Amazighs need their own muslim/islamist movement?
    Yours, Sara


    • Manus MacManus

      Morocco has enough conservative, reactionary forces and promoting orthodoxy under any ideological banner will be just an expansion of fascist Islamist influence. Amazigh are republican by instinct. They have strived for generations for Berber independence and will do that again


  62. Dear Sara,

    Here an interview on youtube with Houcine Jouhadi, the Moroccan translator of the Coran into Tamazight. He explains the relationship between language, politics and religion in Morocco from medieval times till recent political developments:
    http://tinyurl.com/8zz2gbx

    I would love to read your opinion after seeing this.

    Cheers!


  63. Haha sorry, don’t understand arabic…;-) Can you telle what the content is?

    Thanks!


  64. The Moroccan identity is in three words: God, The Nation, The King.


  65. But have you made any survey about your generalised statement? Do you have any statistics to back up your illogical, eccentiric, alien, irrelevant, non-scientific and stupid sentence (if it is a sentence of course)?

    First of all we don’t have a Feudal system in Morocco. He is the Sultan, and, as far as I’m concerned, all Moroccans are unified spirtually, ethically, responsibly, historically, genetically and genuinely to their most beloved king. This is from where our identity is generated since many centuries ago.


    • Precisely, as as you are concerned, not the millions that have been robbed by your beloved Sultan and his cabal. Enjoy it as long as it last as Moroccans will not buy the same nonsense forever


      • The difference between sense and nonsense are arguments, such as facts, scientific evidence, logics and all what can be documented and testified. This is what you are lacking.
        And when you are accusing a person of wrongdoing without any prove, as you heard it on the grapevine, it is a serious matter by means of law.

        In regarding Moroccans, they will definately not heed to a clown like yourself; indeed, they fought the Nazists in France and are going in the righteous path , lead by their wise and faithful leader Molay Mohammed, towards victory , a victory which they enjoyed in Al Andalus eight centuries ago. Today there may be some obstacles, but, believe me from now to ten years and under our beloved king, Morocco will demonstrate to the world, as it did it eight centuries ago, the true civilisation and moral power. In God’s willing.


  66. But have you made any survey about your generalised statement? Do you have any statistics to back up your illogical, eccentiric, alien, irrelevant, non-scientific and stupid sentence (if it is a sentence of course)?

    First of all we don’t have a Feudal system in Morocco. He is the Sultan, and, as far as I’m concerned, all Moroccans are unified spirtually, ethically, responsibly, historically, genetically and genuinely to their most beloved king. This is from where our identity has been generated since many centuries ago.


    • Manus Macmanus

      Being a Surf is illogical. I’ll let you into a secret, gone are the days when Moroccans saw the King in the moon. Wake up and smell the coffee my dear friend. Your argument is so riddled with logical fallacies I do not even know from where to start. Your weak attempt of pathetic historical revisionism is truly pitiful. Your Mekhzenian discourse no longer fit the purpose, try something more persuasive. Your Syllogistic fallacies are the indisputable proof that the Makhzen’s and his agents time is over. You are an unwanted shameful relic of the past and your days are numbered. Long live the Moroccan Republic!


      • Alright! tell me your arguments; give me some historical facts which you think are not fallacies, can you? Besides, define your purported future “republic”!


  67. wow! You are……well nut!


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