Comments on: Moroccans and the World: What does it mean to be a Moroccan Abroad? What is it like to be Abroad in Morocco? http://www.talkmorocco.net/articles/2010/07/moroccans-and-the-world-what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-moroccan-abroad-what-is-it-like-to-be-abroad-in-morocco/ Just another WordPress weblog Thu, 14 Jul 2011 22:32:26 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Manus McManus http://www.talkmorocco.net/articles/2010/07/moroccans-and-the-world-what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-moroccan-abroad-what-is-it-like-to-be-abroad-in-morocco/#comment-3823 Manus McManus Thu, 25 Nov 2010 21:28:55 +0000 http://www.talkmorocco.net/?p=813#comment-3823 @Laila There was many genetic studies on this subject and believe me that the majority of Moroccans that think are Arabs are Berbers. There was not enough Immigration from the Arab peninsula to change the genetic make up of North African indigenous populations. This is more of a cultural rather than a genetic influence. http://www.quotesstar.com/quotes/t/the-genetic-proximity-observed-between-27490.html http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17216803 We have been brain washed to believe that we are Arabs and totally neglected our true cultural heritage. @Laila

There was many genetic studies on this subject and believe me that the majority of Moroccans that think are Arabs are Berbers. There was not enough Immigration from the Arab peninsula to change the genetic make up of North African indigenous populations. This is more of a cultural rather than a genetic influence.

http://www.quotesstar.com/quotes/t/the-genetic-proximity-observed-between-27490.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17216803

We have been brain washed to believe that we are Arabs and totally neglected our true cultural heritage.

]]> By: Samira http://www.talkmorocco.net/articles/2010/07/moroccans-and-the-world-what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-moroccan-abroad-what-is-it-like-to-be-abroad-in-morocco/#comment-3770 Samira Mon, 22 Nov 2010 08:09:36 +0000 http://www.talkmorocco.net/?p=813#comment-3770 Good. We agree then. Good. We agree then.

]]> By: Laila http://www.talkmorocco.net/articles/2010/07/moroccans-and-the-world-what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-moroccan-abroad-what-is-it-like-to-be-abroad-in-morocco/#comment-3762 Laila Sun, 21 Nov 2010 22:32:21 +0000 http://www.talkmorocco.net/?p=813#comment-3762 Thank you, I admire how passionate she sounds but I sense some hostility in her tone and I am a bit confused about what message or opinion she is trying to convey. I read some of her responses to others and I can not define her position. Are you for or against? And for what? I am neutral when it comes to ethnic, religious or political stand. I have no faith, but I was raised to accept all; thus the reason for having friends with different believes (Christian, Jewish, Muslims, Buddhists and simply other people with no faith). I welcome the dialogue, our differences make us more interesting, and I would like to know where she stands and who is she really mad at? Samira, I believe women in Morocco are still second class citizens- as long as it is regulated that one man's share equals the one of two of his female siblings...it says it all Thank you, I admire how passionate she sounds but I sense some hostility in her tone and I am a bit confused about what message or opinion she is trying to convey.
I read some of her responses to others and I can not define her position.
Are you for or against? And for what?
I am neutral when it comes to ethnic, religious or political stand.
I have no faith, but I was raised to accept all; thus the reason for having friends with different believes (Christian, Jewish, Muslims, Buddhists and simply other people with no faith).
I welcome the dialogue, our differences make us more interesting, and I would like to know where she stands and who is she really mad at?
Samira, I believe women in Morocco are still second class citizens- as long as it is regulated that one man’s share equals the one of two of his female siblings…it says it all

]]> By: Jalila http://www.talkmorocco.net/articles/2010/07/moroccans-and-the-world-what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-moroccan-abroad-what-is-it-like-to-be-abroad-in-morocco/#comment-3761 Jalila Sun, 21 Nov 2010 22:05:31 +0000 http://www.talkmorocco.net/?p=813#comment-3761 Don't be too bothered, Laila, rude is what Samira does best. Don’t be too bothered, Laila, rude is what Samira does best.

]]> By: Laila http://www.talkmorocco.net/articles/2010/07/moroccans-and-the-world-what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-moroccan-abroad-what-is-it-like-to-be-abroad-in-morocco/#comment-3756 Laila Sun, 21 Nov 2010 20:26:46 +0000 http://www.talkmorocco.net/?p=813#comment-3756 You have misunderstood my entire message-although you are entitled to have your own opinion I deem your reaction to my comment to be quite rude - Yes my ancestors are definitely a result of "mating" with every single ethnic group that came across the country. My point was we are "Moroccans" not Arab decent or Berber or any other one defined group which makes of us a very open group to all other cultures. Furthermore I was attempting to say that Morocco should never be defined as an Islamic state, for being Moroccan that not means being a Muslim, could be Jewish or simply have no religious affiliation at all. I am an extremely liberal person and I thank my family for having raised me to be tolerant and open to all cultures, my biggest fear is that the new generation will not have the same chance with the shift of views about enforcing Islamic laws into legislations. You have misunderstood my entire message-although you are entitled to have your own opinion I deem your reaction to my comment to be quite rude -
Yes my ancestors are definitely a result of “mating” with every single ethnic group that came across the country.
My point was we are “Moroccans” not Arab decent or Berber or any other one defined group which makes of us a very open group to all other cultures.
Furthermore I was attempting to say that Morocco should never be defined as an Islamic state, for being Moroccan that not means being a Muslim, could be Jewish or simply have no religious affiliation at all.
I am an extremely liberal person and I thank my family for having raised me to be tolerant and open to all cultures, my biggest fear is that the new generation will not have the same chance with the shift of views about enforcing Islamic laws into legislations.

]]> By: Samira http://www.talkmorocco.net/articles/2010/07/moroccans-and-the-world-what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-moroccan-abroad-what-is-it-like-to-be-abroad-in-morocco/#comment-3755 Samira Sun, 21 Nov 2010 19:54:49 +0000 http://www.talkmorocco.net/?p=813#comment-3755 Blame the lack of education and the tele-evangelism. Blame also the generations who were contempt with an Islamic state and never fought for secularism. And grow up a bit...you have no idea if your ancestors were screwing around or not. You can't possibly know whom you are descending from. Blame the lack of education and the tele-evangelism. Blame also the generations who were contempt with an Islamic state and never fought for secularism.

And grow up a bit…you have no idea if your ancestors were screwing around or not. You can’t possibly know whom you are descending from.

]]> By: Laila http://www.talkmorocco.net/articles/2010/07/moroccans-and-the-world-what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-moroccan-abroad-what-is-it-like-to-be-abroad-in-morocco/#comment-3753 Laila Sun, 21 Nov 2010 18:49:00 +0000 http://www.talkmorocco.net/?p=813#comment-3753 My point was that "being Moroccan" meant an entirely separate identity and a distinctive culture from the ones of the Gulf countries. We are a melting pot of Moorish descent and Berber (I am a true product of this mix) and yes we are more liberal and westernized than the rest of Africa, Middle-east and the Gulf. My biggest fear (not resentment) is from the influence of the Gulf countries on the country's new upcoming generation- I do blame the newly found "faith related appropriate lifestyle" on the increased business relations between Morocco and the Gulf nations. The country I grew up in was one of tolerance and had (a non-official) a semi separation of faith and state. From what I hear its position shifted to reinforce Islamic laws; I fear the impact on the lifestyle we enjoyed in the eighties. My point was that “being Moroccan” meant an entirely separate identity and a distinctive culture from the ones of the Gulf countries.
We are a melting pot of Moorish descent and Berber (I am a true product of this mix) and yes we are more liberal and westernized than the rest of Africa, Middle-east and the Gulf.
My biggest fear (not resentment) is from the influence of the Gulf countries on the country’s new upcoming generation- I do blame the newly found “faith related appropriate lifestyle” on the increased business relations between Morocco and the Gulf nations.
The country I grew up in was one of tolerance and had (a non-official) a semi separation of faith and state.
From what I hear its position shifted to reinforce Islamic laws; I fear the impact on the lifestyle we enjoyed in the eighties.

]]> By: Samira http://www.talkmorocco.net/articles/2010/07/moroccans-and-the-world-what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-moroccan-abroad-what-is-it-like-to-be-abroad-in-morocco/#comment-3745 Samira Sun, 21 Nov 2010 10:30:44 +0000 http://www.talkmorocco.net/?p=813#comment-3745 <i>The reason behind a mild resentment towards Arabs from the Gulf and Middle-East area is a reaction to the native of those areas labeling Moroccans as non Arab descent and do not hesitate to describe the entire country to be of Berber origin</i> So...there are Moroccans who believe being called a non-Arab is an insult. That's exactly why Manus spoke of racism. The truth is that most Moroccans are of Amazigh descent. Not that it matters either way, but one wonders why the ruling elite declares the country as "Arab". <i>another strong point of disagreement is being perceived as “too liberal” and living a westernized lifestyle.</i> Yes...scantly clad women are lynched in the Gulf. How dare we not be barbaric and follow Islam to the letter? The reason behind a mild resentment towards Arabs from the Gulf and Middle-East area is a reaction to the native of those areas labeling Moroccans as non Arab descent and do not hesitate to describe the entire country to be of Berber origin

So…there are Moroccans who believe being called a non-Arab is an insult. That’s exactly why Manus spoke of racism.

The truth is that most Moroccans are of Amazigh descent. Not that it matters either way, but one wonders why the ruling elite declares the country as “Arab”.

another strong point of disagreement is being perceived as “too liberal” and living a westernized lifestyle.

Yes…scantly clad women are lynched in the Gulf. How dare we not be barbaric and follow Islam to the letter?

]]> By: Laila http://www.talkmorocco.net/articles/2010/07/moroccans-and-the-world-what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-moroccan-abroad-what-is-it-like-to-be-abroad-in-morocco/#comment-3727 Laila Sat, 20 Nov 2010 22:12:16 +0000 http://www.talkmorocco.net/?p=813#comment-3727 I am a Moroccan Immigrant in the US for almost two decades and half my family is spread around Europe. I thought your views were a bit strong and depicted only a superficial rash judgment about the entire Moroccan community (both emigrant and local). I do agree on the classifications: educated class more liberal, open minded and adapt well in Europe and US versus poor class tendency to fall back on petty crimes or religious extremism. The reason behind a mild resentment towards Arabs from the Gulf and Middle-East area is a reaction to the native of those areas labeling Moroccans as non Arab descent and do not hesitate to describe the entire country to be of Berber origin; another strong point of disagreement is being perceived as "too liberal" and living a westernized lifestyle. Being so close to Europe makes the entire country closer- culture wise- to South west European cultures and the desert on the south cuts us from the rest of Africa which explains having no close ties with the neighboring countries. I am a Moroccan Immigrant in the US for almost two decades and half my family is spread around Europe.
I thought your views were a bit strong and depicted only a superficial rash judgment about the entire Moroccan community (both emigrant and local). I do agree on the classifications: educated class more liberal, open minded and adapt well in Europe and US versus poor class tendency to fall back on petty crimes or religious extremism.
The reason behind a mild resentment towards Arabs from the Gulf and Middle-East area is a reaction to the native of those areas labeling Moroccans as non Arab descent and do not hesitate to describe the entire country to be of Berber origin; another strong point of disagreement is being perceived as “too liberal” and living a westernized lifestyle.
Being so close to Europe makes the entire country closer- culture wise- to South west European cultures and the desert on the south cuts us from the rest of Africa which explains having no close ties with the neighboring countries.

]]> By: Manus McManus http://www.talkmorocco.net/articles/2010/07/moroccans-and-the-world-what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-moroccan-abroad-what-is-it-like-to-be-abroad-in-morocco/#comment-2964 Manus McManus Tue, 12 Oct 2010 21:39:18 +0000 http://www.talkmorocco.net/?p=813#comment-2964 Really Moroccans are seen as an integral part of the Really Moroccans in Europe are seen as an integral part of the Fundamentalist/Regressive Islamic Near-east versus Progressive/Libertarian West construct. Unfortunately in this dialectic there are no shades of grey, especially in the Anglo-Saxon collective consciousness. There is also an unhealthy amalgam between the issue of economic class and cultural differences within the context of multiculturism. The truth of the matter is that Moroccans exhibit the same trait as other similar group in the same social class. Educated, upwardly mobile, and comfortable middle-class Moroccans are well integrated, liberal and busy enjoying life. Economically deprived Moroccans revert to orthodoxy, criminality or just are totally excluded and exclusive exactly like the native populations in their respective countries. The rest is really Immigration politics. As far as Moroccan attitudes vis-à-vis others living in their country, are mixed, yet consistent. Moroccans are culturally racist. To sum it up they feel superiors to other Africans, inferior and resentful towards westerners, and utterly hateful of Arabs from the Gulf. Really Moroccans are seen as an integral part of the Really Moroccans in Europe are seen as an integral part of the Fundamentalist/Regressive Islamic Near-east versus Progressive/Libertarian West construct. Unfortunately in this dialectic there are no shades of grey, especially in the Anglo-Saxon collective consciousness. There is also an unhealthy amalgam between the issue of economic class and cultural differences within the context of multiculturism. The truth of the matter is that Moroccans exhibit the same trait as other similar group in the same social class. Educated, upwardly mobile, and comfortable middle-class Moroccans are well integrated, liberal and busy enjoying life. Economically deprived Moroccans revert to orthodoxy, criminality or just are totally excluded and exclusive exactly like the native populations in their respective countries. The rest is really Immigration politics.

As far as Moroccan attitudes vis-à-vis others living in their country, are mixed, yet consistent. Moroccans are culturally racist. To sum it up they feel superiors to other Africans, inferior and resentful towards westerners, and utterly hateful of Arabs from the Gulf.

]]> By: Moroccan Decor – the Mystery of Moroccan Lanterns http://www.talkmorocco.net/articles/2010/07/moroccans-and-the-world-what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-moroccan-abroad-what-is-it-like-to-be-abroad-in-morocco/#comment-1953 Moroccan Decor – the Mystery of Moroccan Lanterns Fri, 30 Jul 2010 03:30:17 +0000 http://www.talkmorocco.net/?p=813#comment-1953 [...] Moroccans and the World: What does it mean to be a Moroccan Abroad … [...] [...] Moroccans and the World: What does it mean to be a Moroccan Abroad … [...]

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